#general (2019-11)
General conversations related to DevOps/Automation
General Discussions
2019-11-07
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Wow :)
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Thanks @Erik Osterman (Cloud Posse)
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hey everyone give a warm welcome to @KC! Good to have you here
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Summoning is almost complete! Checkout #announcements for more details.
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What is thy bidding my master?
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just today I muted the old general channel for that reason..
haha! sorry - i won’t take offense if you mute this one too
Lol
Quick question for the group, has anyone tried their hands at AWS CDK or Pulumi for IaC?
CDK looks like a neat tool for generating cloudformation. That’s all I’d use it for at this point though
I’m sticking with terraform. Cloudformation lags behind too much when new features come out and I don’t want to switch tools/CICD pipelines when I switch between AWS and Azure
Share your thoughts
Pulumi sounds amazing, but the uncertainty about what is “open source” vs paid/managed, and haven’t yet spoken to a single person using it for anything more than testing.
I haven’t personally used pulumi, but I did discuss with someone who did a p.o.c. to get familiar with it and said something to the effect of:
You know how Terraform does all your resource dependency ordering for create/destroy ops? Yeah, that’s now your code’s responsibility.
Which I’m sure is tractable, but doesn’t sound fun without good libraries to lean on.
pulimi looks nice A+
yes, this too
especially with so many companies renegging on their FLOSS commitments nowadays
someone related: https://sweetops.slack.com/archives/CB6GHNLG0/p1572720027024200
Interesting read on why terraform providers for Kubernetes and helm are less than ideal… see comment by pulumi developer. https://www.reddit.com/r/devops/comments/awy81c/managing_helm_releases_terraform_helmsman/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
OTOH, Isopod is fully open source: https://medium.com/cruise/isopod-5ad7c565d350
With Isopod, we achieved strongly typed Kubernetes objects, code reuse, and test coverage that was not possible before.
I wish there were a Golang version of Isopod, because it enforces strict typing where I’d image Python would be a bit more tricky in that sense.
Re pulimi, also think it looks interesting, but didn’t we all move to a DSL style for a reason? Having raw language is good, if used in moderation. You can soon put so much logic in there it can get unwieldy
I feel the same these days. So my take on Pulumi is that it’s a Rails for Infra - basically a Node.js framework to build a declarative management tool. We’ll likely to build a DSL on top of Pulumi.
I mean no offense, but given Pulumi uses Terraform’s providers, wouldn’t building a DSL on top of Pulumi basically give you a slower version of Terraform?
What’s missing from TF?
What’s missing from TF?
I’d say that’s ability to call any e.g. Node.js libraries from your script to write a more feature rich “app”.
My understanding is that TF is a runtime and a framework to reconcile your infrastructure according to the configuration. TF built its own DSL on top of HCL. The benefit of the DSL is that you can only do necessary things with it, which eases reviewing and auditing. If every infrastructure-related tasks could be cleanly expressed in HCL, we won’t need anything that wraps TF/HCL.
As time has proved, for advanced use-cases the tf’s DSL on top of HCL was a leaky abstraction. For example we needed things like local-exec provisioners. It works but isn’t testable and maintainable compared to regular functions provided by programming languages.
Pulumi seems like a SDK and a framework to write a more feature rich app that manages your infrastructure.
It reuses existing and battle-tested tools like node.js and terraform providers as the part of its runtime(as I understand).
But you may know, reviewing arbitrary code is hard and costly. The more your Pulumi app gets feature rich, the more reviews get harder. To ease reviewing, you’ll probably extract common patterns seen in your Pulumi apps, into a config file dedicated to you or your organization. That’s basically what I call DSL. I’ve focused on reviewing, but maybe there are more benefits like reduced bugs.
wouldn’t building a DSL on top of Pulumi basically give you a slower version of Terraform?
I believe you’re mostly correct. If you rewrite tf projects that worked without any problem with pulumi, you’ll likely end up just slower versions of them…
I’d say HCL/TF is already great although it isn’t perfect. I would definitely try Pulumi but I won’t migrate to it anytime soon
i’m expecting that eventually we’ll get to the point where infrastructure becomes an application detail and we start using infrastructure deployment in the same way that we look at things like ORMs and middleware now
i think that requires both a “new kind of infrastructure” as well as a “new kind of application architecture” though
and it’s a ways away i think
Thanks! I think I’m on board.
So probably in the future we’ll write some node.js app(not infra specific) and kick e.g. a single linux command to get everything up and running.
Under the hood it may be calling things like Pulumi and a new kind of infrastructure thing to magically provision whatever the app needed - but that’s the application detail you’ve said, right?
i mean that’s where I think we’ll get to. I think patterns like database migrations are a good analogue to where things will end up, and then there’ll be things that automatically generate those migrations and handle making sure things change in a way that makes sense
Thanks, that makes sense to me
Anyways, Pulumi as of today would definitely better than calling terraform apply
from a shell script
I had similar feeling when I saw GitHub Actions v2 has chosen JavaScript as the alternative language to write plugins(=Actions)
I’m a bit tired glueing tools like Terraform with my pity bash script. I wish we could get to the future that all these things became implementation details that can disappear. In the meantime, I’d appreciate something that’s better than my bash script..
eh - i hate javascript
Going back to features, I’d quite like terraform to have rollback, if an apply fails, it should be mindful enough to restore the state to the state it started in.
2019-11-09
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2019-11-10
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2019-11-11
Originally presented at 2019 O’Reilly Velocity (Berlin). In software development, test-driven development (TDD) is the process of writing tests and then developing functionality to pass the tests. Let’s explore methods of adapting and applying TDD to configuring and deploying infrastructure-as-code. Repository here: https://github.com/joatmon08/tdd-infrastructure
For people who didn’t scroll down like me, here’s the code: https://github.com/joatmon08/tdd-infrastructure
Some examples of Test-Driven Development for Infrastructure - joatmon08/tdd-infrastructure
Wish there was a VOD for some context, but the idea is neat
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anybody knows a markdown editor for mac? I want to focus on the content and visual style instead # symbols
typora or pine
I use hackmd which is a website
I used visual studio code which is free or ruby mine.
Or write it in anything you like
Then paste the rich text here :-)
In the past I have used Markdown Pro from the Mac App Store. But I don’t think it meets your requirements.
Macdown is good enough https://macdown.uranusjr.com
MacDown is an open source Markdown editor for macOS, released under the MIT License.
2019-11-12
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Anyone know how to configure this? I can’t find it
(…on GitHub)
Seems like it triggers if there’s a CONTRIBUTING.md
file and any good first issue
labels
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2019-11-13
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2019-11-14
Hi @Sean Turner
What are people using for CI with GCP?
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Anyone expert in Kubernetes, specifically OpenShift and Argo CD can ping me for DevOps Support work. Thank you
We also have #jobs if you want to post more details
I have someone I can refer you to.
PM me
Thanks @Erik Osterman (Cloud Posse), too late I am seeing your reply.
Haha, wow, 3 years later
lol I know mate, I have added all my workspaces now.
https://www.codementor.io/@igayoso used to do consulting on it
Nice, Thanks Pal
2019-11-15
Hi…i am not able to run helmfile using helm 3…i am getting the following error….. Error: context deadline exceeded
Error: plugin "diff" exited with error
Consider using #helmfile
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2019-11-16
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2019-11-17
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2019-11-18
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2019-11-19
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2019-11-20
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2019-11-21
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2019-11-22
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@amelia.graycen you’re lucky #1,700! thanks for helping us cross a new threshold
Cool~ I’m excited to be here. :)
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Oops! Looks like we’ve not been inviting new members to #general Welcome @codeangler @SreeSree @Jeff Bilder @Carlos @Erick Yamanaka @Karthikeyan Sundararajan @kirubakaran @ddemo @Will @Chaithanya @sumit parmar @Alex B @Bikalkumar @Dilven @Yannis @c1nd0r @Fallen Kensis @Lewis @Travis @discotroy @Aziz @mick @Javier Juarez @Govind Rajwar @Lormann Chen @Mitch @Erick Yamanaka @Willie @jp @adefemi171 @elamaran.shan @Mike Dee @Jonathan @Shree Gowtham @Unang Val @tajmahpaul @sworley @automationtrainee @Mr.OO @Sean Turner @Dani Polo @Adam Blackwell @kunal relan @AlexL @Daniel Jacobsson @KellermannRobby @Jon Bethea @Thomas Burton @Brandon @kenny @rintaro.okamura @Dinesh Patra @CJ Peden @Mike Dial @Sowmian @Eugene Oskin @Zachary Loeber @venkata.mutyala
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2019-11-25
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Working through recent changes to the build-harness, I discovered template/build
is pointing at bin/template_generate.sh
which doesn’t seem to exist. Is this on purpose?
Collection of Makefiles to facilitate building Golang projects, Dockerfiles, Helm charts, and more - cloudposse/build-harness
2019-11-26
@Charlie Mathews interesting find
I wonder if that’s still used.
@Igor Rodionov do you recall where this came from?
Collection of Makefiles to facilitate building Golang projects, Dockerfiles, Helm charts, and more - cloudposse/build-harness
looks like it hasn’t been touched in 2 years.
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2019-11-27
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2019-11-28
Guys what do you recommend for creating dns records for aws eks services? Something better than ‘external-dns’
What’s wrong with external-dns
?
?
We use external-dns
everywhere; works for us. It does leave orphaned DNS records, but this is by design because it cannot be the single source of truth for dns
Just throwing our hat in there for external-dns
as well - use it for all our EKS clusters and are really happy with it
Thank you very much for the input!
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2019-11-30
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