#general (2020-07)

welcome @Fabian Leon Ortega!

I wouldn’t say gold standard, but the most understood mode of development. I’ve seen many nice alternatives, but seldom used in practice. there are a few opinionated solutions around “minikube” (conceptually meaning k8s local). For some reason every projects name escapes me.

They’ve come up every now and then on sweetops

http://tilt.dev/

that’s one..

all that i really need is a multi-platform way to run Docker containers with –network=host for now

i’d just run docker from systemd but there are people who use windows/mac, which is a PiTA

ya, nothing wrong with sticking with docker-compose. we use it all the time in client engagements.

Has anyone tried “Lando”? https://lando.dev/ it looks quite interesting.

@Karoline Pauls Apart from tilt you should also take a look at okteto, garden.io and skaffold https://codefresh.io/kubernetes-tutorial/local-k8s-draft-skaffold-garden/

i went with docker-compose

hi @camilo tavera!

Welcome @Avi Khandelwal!

@Alan Kis appreciate the shoutout! Wow, we have a quite a few members now from Germany.

Berlin’s mascotte is a bear, quite a few from Berlin

@maarten The city name has the different origins (it is not coming from the bear), but from how similar the name of the city, the start of the name sounds to German word for bear, the bear as official city mascotte entered the history

welcome @Prasanna! glad you stopped by

“semi-hard” reason that I can think of: Because our production environment is on Linux, using a *NIX operating system means more environment parity when doing development

I think that’s not a very strong reason anymore. WSL and WSL2 has made Windows much more compatible than before. Also it’s easy to get a Digital Ocean droplet and then use VSCode over SSH so that your dev env can be very close to prod. If you want exact parity, then I’d say to use containers for both dev and prod, and that’s (almost) totally OS-independent.

Devs at our company are mixed between Windows, Mac, and Linux without much of a difference. I think that software is pretty compatible across the board, it’s just a question of which hardware you prefer. And that’s not a very “hard” reason.

@Jonathan Marcus good points all around. The problem that I’m having is that we have a few hundred people who have begged, borrowed, or stolen the ability to use a mac, and the company is now finally trying to decide whether to allow the user to choose, or to force everyone to use Windows.

Personally, I feel (and am) WAAAAY more productive on a mac than I do on Windows, but that isn’t a good enough reason for them.

They are also only looking at the cost of the hardware, rather than Total Cost of Ownership, which hard research has shown to be less expensive for mac than windows

Nearly all of our employee workstations are Windows, while we deploy our server software on *nix. I agree with the point that WSL(2) is starting to make the difference closer to 0. The topic is basically a non-starter at our org because we our IT manages group policy, AV, software deployment, etc for the Windows fleet of machines and have really no clue how to manage anything else.

yeah, between WSL and remote ssh integration in an editor, developing for linux systems is very easy on windows

i actually thinks windows is a better developer experience for me than mac ever was. don’t miss it in the slightest

Given the choice I would have a linux box, but I understand our org’s desire to be able to manage a homogeneous fleet of workstations. Windows seems to often be the enterprise choice as Microsoft offers decent enterprise support

i am absolutely all about user choice though. if you prefer mac and feel more productive with it, that’s the end of the discussion for me

I disagree. I think that the same benefits of standardization that come with containers applies here. A unified fleet of workstations presents a much smaller support footprint on the IT team and a much smaller security burden as well. It’s clearly something that has to be balanced against user happiness & productivity, but there are strong arguments for homogeneity.

I’m glad I’m stimulating interesting conversation

Keep it coming

no doubt, user choice makes things much more difficult for a central IT team. that’s why i’ll never again work for a company with a central IT team

indeed - it is ultimately up to the employee if they want to deal with the way the org works

WSL and WSL2 has made Windows much more compatible than before.  

I disagree, theres no way you can compare this to using linux imo, wsl2 is basically just a vm if im not mistaken, and worse you end up having to do hacky workarounds to get things to work, i cant see any reason to be forced into using a windoze laptop to work on applications that are deployed to linux.

Also it's easy to get a Digital Ocean droplet and then use VSCode over SSH

I cant imagine having to spin up a DO droplet to work over ssh, why? just get the right tool for the job. </two-cents>

In WSL docker doesn’t works and snapd

Docker works fine for me in WSL

I am using debian in WSL and it doesn’t starts

@shamil.kashmeri You make good points. I just think that, more than ever before:

• All the major OSes are pretty similar.

• Most apps are web-based and work on all OSes.

• There are free tools like VSCode that work equally well over SSH or in containers, allowing any differences can be easily overcome.

• Cloud computing and containers mean that you can do a lot of computing in any environment regardless of what desktop you run. Within the last two years I’ve used Linux, Windows, and Mac, and the transitions were all really easy. Ten years ago I had very strong opinions on which OS was better, and I’d have completely agreed with you. These days? I think they’re all interchangeable.

All the major OSes are pretty similar.

I wouldnt agree there at all, the OP is looking to give reasons to his workplace to work on a mac or god forbid a linux laptop, to say that they are all the same just use windows and wsl2 youll be fine or use vscode on windows with ssh to a cloud instance to me is a secondary solution to using linux or macos. No weird networking/fs/package issues is a big reason, running docker in vms locally is kind of a silly thing too imo. Sure, WSL2 has come along way, but its not linux and not mac os.

I’m sort thinking about switching from Mac back to Windows, unless my company gets me the latest models of the Macbook Pro (16”). I’ve been battling with the thermal throttling of the Macbooks for years and I freaking hate it.

There’s certain apps and frameworks I love on Mac (brew, iTerm2), but I recently started gaming again and Windows 10 is a pleasure to use.

If you’re more productive on a Mac and they have a Mac policy, it’s dumb they don’t let you have one.

You’re absolutely right. I think that the case against Windows is so strong and commonly accepted that I’m just trying to present that underappreciated case that Windows ain’t so bad. I also have a lot of sympathy for IT people who have to support their coworkers - every different deployment causes new and different headaches for them - so I’m trying to nudge in favor of making fewer unnecessary waves.

But if you want reasons to use native Linux, there are plenty: • apt-get or yum is loads better than any Mac or Windows package manager (I’ve never liked brew but maybe it’s good? even the name, “homebrew”, really does not inspire confidence that you’re downloading reliable software)

• If you care about performance you don’t want virtualization. I used to low-latency and HPC development and VMs were a total non-starter.

• Your servers run Linux and you should have a dev env that matches them exactly. If they use containers then you’re fine, but if they don’t you better have Linux on your dev box. I’m currently a Mac user myself (love my MBP 16”), but I’m not sure what the arguments are for Mac over Windows. Docker still runs in a VM for me.

On windows, scoop has been a brilliant package manager, for my usage. It is like brew, but with the key difference that it supports pkg versions out of the gate

hello

For everyone’s enjoyment that has to work with CABs

Thank you for sharing. Always a good sign when an article opens with a reference to Nicole Forsgren’s work.

Hi Everyone

hello

hey Andrew looking to learn more about the latest and greatest in devops including build, deployments, CI/CD etc. Been reading a lot and wanted to discuss ideas with folks here. Is general the right channel? what other channels are good for having those discussions?

#release-engineering would be a good fit

we’re doing a hackweek at my company and were attempting to do the following…

• custom image using opengrok official image
• ldap authentication
• running docker image on an ec2
• mount efs volume on the ec2 for storage of the repositories
• asg to increase instances
• alb + tg + route53

the above is for testing purposes. once everything is ironed out, the plan is to move it to ecs to scale it up if necessary

does this make sense?

Thank you

Thanks!